The X-Men TAS Podcast: Danger.exe

Polaris realizes that being on X-Factor is for losers and instead joins the superior super-hero team on the latest episode of X-Men (97) TAS! Join us as we discuss...

• Welcoming in the legendary Feliziano Flores to chat all things X-Men, comics, movies and tragic pre-selling of priceless Magic trading cards!
• Expressing our love for Gambit, the unofficial ninja of the X-Men!
• Polaris being a bit of a messy b*tch in this one!
• Contemplating how Professor X is going to run the school in the United States if the X-Men team is exiled overseas!

The X-Men TAS Podcast just opened a SECRET reddit group, join by clicking here! We are also on Twitch sometimes… click here to go to our page and follow and subscribe so you can join in on all the mysterious fun to be had! Also, make sure to subscribe to our podcast via Buzzsprout or iTunes and tell all your friends about it! Follow Willie Simpson on Bluesky and please join our Facebook Group! Last but not least, if you want to support the show, you can Buy Us a Coffee as well! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to the X-Men Task Podcast. My name is Sonia Rapenport.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

My name is Willie Simpson.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

And today we have a very special guest, a person I have known since we were 10 years old, which means we've known each other now 30 years, a member of my chosen family, a very accomplished podcaster, the one and only Feliciano Flores. Welcome to the X-Men Task Podcast. Hello, hello, welcome, Dave. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Can I just say, Feliciano, you were there? You're not going to remember this, but when I was dreaming up the idea of the X-Men Task podcast, you were in a car with us and you were cheering me on. And I was like, fuck, Feliciano's going to be on every episode, isn't he? And then 900 episodes later, and we finally got him. You know, I'll never forget you just like actively applauding this idea that we needed to have an X-Men animated series podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

It's a great idea and a great podcast. And you know, 900 episodes later sounds like adult friendship.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Like this week we're talking about danger.exe, the latest episode of X-Men 97. We're going to talk about that a whole lot more. Just a reminder for people to check our show notes where they could uh you know uh interact with us, join our social medias. Um, again, a reminder when Spider-Man 4 comes out, uh, we're gonna have a big Zoom session and we want everyone to join who wants to get their hot takes on that. We will be releasing more details as we get closer to that date as well. Um, Feliciano, I don't even know where to begin here, really. Um, before we dive into this episode, I just want to hear your takes on uh X-Men in general, X-Men the Animated Series, X-Men 97, however you want to approach this broad question of X-Men-ness, uh before.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Okay, well, where to even begin? X-Men has been a part of my life. In fact, I just realized I'm not wearing an X-Men, my X-Men cap.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Oh, we don't, we're not recording videos.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

I know, but like just so you are, we'll pretend no, I the audience needs to know for authenticity's sake. I have a Kro-Coen hat, a hat in Krokoan that says mutant. Um, and I'm not wearing it, and then I suddenly disappoint myself. But I am wearing a DD hat, so I'm clearly was alone on Friday nights. Um uh X-Men. I X-Men, I will say, is my longest love of uh in terms of like Geekdom. Uh I discovered it, I feel like as the 80s kids, all at once we got hit with Star Wars, Ninja Turtles, and X-Men. And X-Men has been the one that has like carried me through uh the entire time. Um and not unsurprisingly, like X-Men is about found family, it's about marginalized communities, despite what some people seem to think when they watch it um or read it or ingest it in any sort of ways.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Hey, it's also about heroic people that wear glasses.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

I think that's it's also about it X-Men is the first franchise where you re well, maybe I mean Marvel. Let's say Marvel is where you first see like superheroes who are differently abled. Um and yeah, so so X-Men has always been a joy. Uh I remember my first uh series of X-Men comics, uh, my older cousin Terrence gave to me. And uh the first character was not an X-Men, uh, but it was Speedball.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Oh, I know what comic you're talking about, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

And I had this comic. I absolutely love Speedball Speedball, even when he went through his dramatic.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Well, when I heard about Speedball's involvement in the Civil War War, I was very mad and surprised.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

I was I was so thrilled that that he was mentioned in anything that I was just like, I don't care if you caused all this muck. Um Mr. I don't uh I don't care that you've rebranded yourself in the most like even though it is not the it is not the extreme early 90s, the most like emo early 90s character ever, Penance. Um uh and yeah, in that stack they had uh I I I can't remember what the issue was, but like I immediately fell in love with Gambit, and then when the cartoon came out, I was like, okay, this is my ride or die.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

So I mean in episode one of G episode one of X-Men, Gambit is incredible in that absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Um, and I you know, I feel like we're not we're not we are here about the X-Men love. We're not here to like separate the X-Factions of fandom. But as someone who's never been particularly Wolverine inclined, Gambit is kind of like obviously another go-to. Like I think it's bringing it back to the DD terms, like, are you going for the are you going for the brute fighter or are you going for the finesse fighter? Um and like there's just something about capable people who don't it's not who who don't give a fuck, but who are flippant.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Um joyful in in whatever they're doing, like but also having multiple mysterious dudes on the same team and making that writing work and not be like a redundant or a writing mistake, I think is really impressive about X-Men 2. Yeah. Because Gambit and Wolverine sort of occupy a similar, like they've got mysterious pasts, they're secretive, they're both badasses, and but it doesn't like you'd think that's like oh, it's just repeating, you need variety, but in some cases, having repeats works as well. And I that that was something that always struck me about Gamb Gambit and Wolverine.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

But they have that with other like with female characters too, like rogue is fairly mysterious, storm is fairly mysterious, like they they get their explanations down the line, but that's like part of the fun is revealing those mysteries as we go along.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yeah, and like it's interesting because they use they don't give him any sort of like Asian influence whatsoever. But if you look at the two of them next to each other, uh obviously Wolverine is very much a samurai, a Ronin, and like Gambit is very much a ninja. Like fucking awesome, like he he he occupies that space of just like, well, what is the other side of this? And like given his history, I one of my only I don't want to say one of my only criticisms of the animated series in terms of how they deal with Gambit is that like they never give you Gambit's actual introduction uh as of uh uh and like his whole deal with the Morlocks. Um yeah, well and like it because it would have made him so much less sympathetic if you had met him there, but like I definitely feel like it was something they could have revealed later down the line.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

But it wasn't that like that came later in the comics too. That wasn't right away, was it? Unless I don't remember. That wasn't have the first gambit issue.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

So that was uh I think they were they were you you get that reveal a little later on. Um but like it it's it it's the it's those layers that I sort of love, and like I appreciate recently we got in the in that what if with Galactus, we finally got another variant of Gambit, and once again, what's he doing? He's conning in space for the power cosmic. Um uh yeah, so he's just always kind of been my guy. So he's your guy. All right, gambit, awesome. He's my he's he's he's my he's one of my guys. He's my guy, he's the one who I've been ride or die with. Uh, one of the things I loved about this season, and even if it's just a little, it's just this tease that Quintin is going to be in it more, and we're gonna see him more because love me, some Quintin Quagmire.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Um Right. Uh he Sonya, he's the guy, the young mutant with the Magnetula's right shirt. Um, okay. Yeah. From the uh Grant Morrison era of comics.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Yeah, and like Quentin is just because he's one of another one, he's another one of the like I forget the exact number. He's another level uh Omega level Omega something, yeah uh telepath. Um and he becomes the next deal. He he becomes he starts that way and actually he stays that way, but in a way that's endearing. He becomes a good guy.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

I didn't I didn't follow his story after. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

After yeah, he becomes like an act, like a proper X-Men. Um, but like he is still an egomaniac because he's a genius and like just an emo anarchist. Um that's funny. Uh Quint is the kind of person who puts up a psych a literal psychic like velvet rope barrier to keep you away from him. Um and it's just like you you can stand on the other side of that. Uh it's like this is extra. There was no reason to do this. He someone could literally walk around, but good on you.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

So along those lines, we're getting some like more we're approaching the more modern era of X-Men and X-Men 97 season two. I just want to extend the broad conversation to your thoughts on X-Men 97 in general as a reboot, and you know, then leading into your general thoughts about how season two is going.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

I think it was a genius idea, and I I challenge anyone to say season one was not brilliantly executed all around. Like uh I shed real tears. Um in the first season, and I think even for 97, it upgraded, it updated in some of the sensibilities in ways that I think we needed, and like having that messy serial drama feeling is something that I guess kind of superhero things have kind of been missing. Like, everyone's been focusing on a multiverse, and like you feel like you would get that, but you haven't had it in the way that X-Men 97 did, and like they I think they curbed it in a way that's a little is is more heartfelt and uh than it had been in the in the original series. Like, not that we didn't love the original series, but it it the original series went for high melodrama, and I think 97 has hit that really good spot about where it's like it's dramatic, but like we don't have every female character screaming orgasms every time they get hit and like dramatically falling from the sky. Um I think it I think it hit a really good tonal spot. Yeah, um there are the women characters are a little more possessed and powerful in the way that's so much more possessed in the reboot, and I love that.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Um my biggest nitpick, I don't even know why I'm mentioning it, but is just I do think there's something the the vo the performances in X-Men 97 are are a little lacking to me, but maybe I just love the original too much with the young cast and their prime with the original actors. Uh like who's an example in this? I'm trying to think of just they've re- they've had to recast characters. Like last week they had Sabretooth, it's obviously a new actor, and I just missed the original Sabretooth guy. Like his his voice, his performances was imprinted in my brain, much like the original guy who played cable, etc., down the line. And like that to me is like still a small hurdle for me, but that's a very minor complaint.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

I mean, yeah, that's that's that's kind of the concession. I I I get that in when I hear Rogue, whose voice has obviously like gotten a bit husky with age. Um but at least she's an original actor. But she's an original actor, and I think as the only I think the new vocal cast is doing a well enough job and has feels enough like the characters for me that like that's not a problem. Yeah, and I think because they're hitting the story notes in good ways, that it doesn't really affect me as well, with maybe the concession of the new Xavier. Something about his voice just kind of doesn't hit for me correctly.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yeah, I thought that's in this episode particularly, you know, he's like dealing with all the emotional drama of Magneto and his daughter, and like yeah, I wanted a little more, but slightly whinier in this new version.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Yeah, the original version, he had just the perfect transatlantic kind of something. I mean, it's Canadian, really. They're all Canadian in the original version, and there's something about the Canadian voice actors um uh Americanizing their voices a little. I don't know quite exactly what it was, but it was magical. Um, again, small nitpicks for me about the voice acting. But um, I don't know how about in general about X-Men 97, what's giving you thus far? Are you enjoying the ride? Or I mean my biggest real complaint is only nine episodes. I think that is the biggest flaw.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

Oh, okay. So, in just stepping back, I will say one of the things I love I am enjoying the ride for X-Men 97. I'm super glad. I also hope they launch Spider-Man 97. Oh, yes. I like that just give me that. Give me it.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Just give me I kind of want a more uh it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Yeah, uh, I I I mean, I'll go as far as to say I'll take Fantastic Four 97 and that show didn't last.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Well I mean, well, you know, see I I love season two of Fantastic Four, but um, you know, that that would be Spider-Man 97 would be incredible, or 98, whatever they would call it. Um 99, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Yeah, I will uh in terms of I just completely mind flat uh my uh flatlined mentally. Um in terms of 97 I love it. I love that when season one came out, they took a look at themselves and like went back to the comics in a way I think where they're just like, well, who was misrepresented? Because like one of the things I love that they did was fix Cyclops and make him less make him more like comic cyclops, who is a cool, interesting character. Yeah, whereas opposed to like most kids who grew up in the 90s instinctively hated Cyclops because of what they did to him in the animated series. And like I'm kind of I'm kind of I kind of wish they'd take that further because there's this there's that great meme that's uh uh that had gone around with about X-Men where it's just like oh where it's like oh uh X-Men, X-Men, the animated series fans uh thinking about Professor Xavier, and it's like someone smiling and thinking warmly, and then they're just like comic book X-Men fans thinking about Professor Xavier, and it's just like staring with malice. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

And like I I think they're getting to a more uh uh comic Professor Xavier in a way in X-Men 87. He's not like the utopian hero as he is in the original series.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

And like that's what I I will always go for source material, like get back to source material. It's like the discussion we had with the Odyssey.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Oh, yeah, we were talking about the Odyssey.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Oh, we should have recorded that too, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Um you can lay some Odyssey thoughts on us real quick. So my thoughts about the Odyssey were I think it is a fantastic movie, I think it is a cinemastic masterpiece. I do not think it's the Odyssey. It is it is not a mythological drama, it is a gritty realistic take. It is a it is a history of the Odyssey, it is not a myth, a mythology, uh psychological exploration of something. Exactly. Uh, which is not what I wanted. I wanted a mythological drama.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Um, I wanted my gods, I wanted You wanted like a Lord of the Rings style literal presentation perhaps.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Yes, something uh something on like an epic, clean scale, but that still dealt with the gods as actual people. Because as I discussed when we were just kind of privately talking, I was just like by getting rid of the gods or making them more theoretical as opposed to like beings that are actually in your face, it repositions the main point of the story. It's no longer this tale about hubris about these two beings, uh, these beings who've interacted and like one has actively scorned the others uh in respect. It becomes this motif of just guilt. And then like you have to repivot a lot of things to make that guilt resonant at all times and to like re-motivate things. Whereas in the dramas, like a god will stop by and say something and it'll set uh Odysseus off. Here they had to find like kajigger things to be like, okay, well, what motivates that next beat if it's not an actual deity stepping in or like acting upon something?

SPEAKER_00 17:01

But I almost wonder if that was purposeful for like a modern commentary, because it is such a strong anti-war story the way it's told now, because it's on Odysseus and the choices that he made, and they're referencing the gods a little, but you're right, they're not the motivating force. Yeah, he he has his own reasons for doing things, and then when he has to look back on it later and see like the dire repercussions of his own actions, that's where the guilt and everything comes in. So that's like a strong message for us now. And I agree, and I agree that that is a masterful thing.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Yes, I mean, and I agree that that is a masterful story told that is not the Odyssey. Okay, fair.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

See, now you feel like me when I talk about Nolan and Batman, where I just like I'm like, it's a beautiful telling of Batman, but is not Batman as I understand him, you know. Like the choices Batman makes are just un Batman like.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Uh, but um and here's the thing: I went in knowing it was going to be that because I'm a Nolan fan, and I know that he was not uh like I said, Christopher Nolan is not a fantastical man. Like the things he's asking Zeus, there's not there's no whimsy to him, and there's no camp in that sense, and like you need that in mythology, and like it was I was never going to be there. So I I was just like, I'm going to watch uh the Odyssey of history, and that's what I got, and it was insanely well done. Um, as I was saying, Circe's entire scene was the best animal transformation thing I've seen in any movie anywhere, in terms of just like feeling and theme and like appearance, just how it was done and how it was portrayed. Like, I would see the movie again just to rewatch that scene. Did you see it in IMAX? No, because IMAX gives me migraines.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Um go see the IMAX version, but maybe not.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

I learned that lesson the hard way when I saw what is it, the second or third matrix in in IMAX. And like literally they did this, it was the the third one where they the architect spun the room and I literally just fell out of my chair.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Would that be the fault of the third matrix and not the IMAX, perhaps?

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Touche. Touche.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

But I understand not wanting to give it another go just in case.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Uh getting back to X-Men. Um, I don't know. I don't know what to say. Uh should we just dive into this episode or do you have any more like hot takes you need to get off about well?

SPEAKER_02 19:25

So my hot take for season two is that I can feel a change behind the scenery. Um it's it's not bad, it's just not hitting the way season one did. Because of Monta Mayo. Well, you know, he's there. I mean, they're using his. I'm not I'm not insinuating anything, I just feel a shift tonally. Um I agree.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

I think it's a little bit the shift, it's a shift in heart. Like I think it's less explicit. Like, for instance, I'll give you one example that stuck out to me. You could tell me if I'm crazy. In the episode where we see Apocalypse's backstory, and you see that he was a slave, and they have a montage, I think it's kind of like a wordless montage because it's just going through his mind. Yeah, you see his life as a slave. I wonder if they tone that back a little, because that felt like a Bo Dameo scene, and I think he was a co-writer on that episode. But I think if Bo was there, I think he would have even gone a little more explicitly into like verbalizing the slave experience for it, like and just taking you somewhere a little more uh you know uh edgy and for lack of a better word, with just like talking about a difficult topic. Because in the first season, when Magneto's going on about his thoughts on humanity and bigotry and racism or whatever it is, it's like it's very explicitly worded and it goes on. Like Magneto gives quite a many speech in the first season, and here it's a little, I feel like there's some themes like that, but they're a little like so it's not it's not even I can't quite put my finger on how to explain it because it's not consistently between like dialogue and visuals.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

In the first season, uh those deeper themes felt very experienced in how they were presented, and in this season it they feel very presentational in how they're presented. Yeah, like it's being given to me, even I I know I I also appreciate the the Jubilee level up. I almost hope they make her a vampire.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Um that's a storyline I'm only familiar with on Wikipedia, not an actual is it a good storyline that she becomes a vampire or does it suck? I mean, she's a vampire for a while, but like it's it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

She gets unvampired. How does it uh don't tell me, it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Just hashtag Krikoa. Okay, okay. The and and she's a mom while she's a vampire. It's a lot. Wow. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Um the headed into Twilight Territory.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Oh god. Yeah, it's it's it's just sort of that vibe of it. But like in the episode where was it was actually was that the two episodes back, um where she's breaking the mutants out of the camp. And can I just say I appreciate that they made X Factor the bootlickers they are?

SPEAKER_01 22:33

They're not my X Factor.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

They're not anyone's well they are they are exactly right X Factor. I havoc, anytime I see Havoc, I just roll my eye. Yeah, I'd say yeah. Um in any medium, just chucking and jiving. Uh the but like in that scene where she's talking to Polaris, like in that time there's she's explicitly stating it, but it doesn't it's not ringing with that residence that like it should, where you're just like, who are what what are you doing? You were on our side of things and now you're locking up mutants, like yeah, and like she says it, but like that whole it the whole vibe of it is feels too playful.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

It's also it's just I think it's not enough time. I think nine episodes is not enough, and the episodes are short.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

I mean, I think I think you could I think they present they present enough of the concepts of like they put you in they put it in the right framework, but it's just it there's not enough meat on the bone, basically, for a lot of this stuff. I mean, I think last week's episode was a great example of that. The Wolverine getting his claws back was just a very rushed I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

So rushed. Hashtag Maverick deserved better.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Um like when they had 22 episodes in the original series per season, more or less. Wolverine goes on a whole like journey to find Morph over I don't even may even be longer than a season, and you've got all these random scenes in different episodes where you see that journey. Like, I feel like if Wolverine's getting his claws back in some form, it should be like a a season's length or 20 episodes length journey of a side quest that ends up finally being resolved. Whereas in this it's just like completely.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

I definitely thought they could have given us more of uh of the repercussions of that for Wolverine in general. Like we didn't get to see him live in that space of having had that done to him and trauma, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Um and also the trauma of getting the metal back, which is it was so easy. It was that was like not true.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

I will also say I will also say I one of the things I have loved in the new series because for a character who I bel I believe is was original to the animated series, I love how they differentiate Morph from Mystique in his like taking on the physical characteristics of everyone. Like I think that's such an A, this character who was abused now has this OP potential in a way that is really interesting because like you're dealing with someone who physically is capable and mentally gets stepped back a couple um who meant who has some mental setbacks, uh, with all of the trauma still from uh from Sinister. Uh and yeah, so I I appreciate what they fit they found as niche. And like I don't think he's made it into the comics at all. And like he's one of those characters I feel like should have by now. Um I have a feeling they're gonna can't.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

And if we're talking if they haven't done it, they'll canonize him shortly.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

And if by any chance someone at Marvel is hearing this, if you're gonna do that, I know that like I'm the I seem to be the only person who loved this property, but if we could bring Eclipse from the gifted in as well, I would genuinely appreciate that. Because I love the clip.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

I mean, speaking of Polaris was in that show, right? Yeah, Polaris is in that show.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Yeah, and I think that was my introduction to Polaris, actually.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

They have a baby named Aurora. Wow. Um, all right. Well, that leads us into this episode, danger.exe. Speaking of Polaris, who is one of my favorite side characters in X-Men history? I I mean it's probably just for the most shallow reasons. Um green hair? Green hair. I mean, she looks like a character from Gem and the holograms, which Gem is her name. Um I mean, it's just it could be another one of those shallow things, too, of like she's just another uh stunning, beautiful supermodel. Uh, but again, this time just like green-haired version with that like green 80s hair. Um, so you know, I I as far as like how much they get her correct in this episode, we'll find out in terms of like her characterization. But I was just happy to see a big spotlight placed on this character because I do think I also think too, like um uh just in general saying the level of animation on Polaris' powers in this episode was exactly how I would imagine it as a kid, seeing it the way it was illustrated in the comics brought to life here is just like beautiful. Um, Sonya, how does this episode kick off? Let's get right into it.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Um first I want to say that in the introduction, Wolverine has claws back.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Okay, yeah. They gave him his claws back.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Yeah, so they're like really they're tying up all like the little loose end details. They're done. Yeah, you're done with that.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Yeah, I mean to be fair, the bone claws suck on a like a meta level, like at least to me. Like he needs the metal claws.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Yeah, I mean, uh tragic story, all I get it, but yeah, they had to get it back.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Um, anyways, you know what marrow makes it work.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Uh okay, so we open up basically uh where we left off with Professor X in the desert in ancient Egypt with uh apocalypse about to like stomp him. But then like quickly we see that it's not actually a redo of that scene, it's the danger room, and he is trying to like do his own bad therapy on himself to like get over it or like try to see what he could have done differently, and he's having it like replay over and over and over again. I mean, like, is this good therapy? Am I missing something?

unknown 28:27

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Like I don't know. The danger room ends up kind of like rebelling against him in a weird way because it thinks that it's not doing the input or like the outputs correctly because he keeps asking for a reboot to like get more chances to do it better. And so the danger room starts like self-correcting in a way that he didn't ask for, and that kind of like kicks off the the first drama of the episode.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Yeah, I mean, this is all an allusion to the um Joss Whedon storyline from Astonishing X-Men where the danger room comes to life, it it rebels against the X-Men. It's it you know, it was like a little uh storyline about sentient AI, essentially. And uh like, do we treat AI as like human if it's self-aware? You know, like what rights does an AI have? I think those are the themes. If I remember those comics, were you uh did you read The Astonishing X-Men, Feliciano? I'm assuming you did.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

Yeah, that was that would yeah, you got it.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

I mean, I was never in love with the danger storyline personally. I thought it was like a stupid aside. I I the only thing I liked about it was the discussion of like hard light technology. I don't even know if it's from that.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Yeah, I've can I mean we we've conceded worse in terms of storylines. Like I did yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

I mean, if anything, this is like a nice it's doing what the X-Men animated series does, where it takes storylines from the comics and reinterprets them, yeah, and like it jazzes them up in some way and brings them to audiences. So it's it's mixing Grant Morrison and the Joss Whedon era, so it's like bridging over like the year 2000 into 2004 or something, and giving you like another like new flavor of X-Men. And and even by the end of this episode, they end up having the not the Joss Whedon outfits, but the Grant Morrison leather coats with the yellow X's on them. Yeah. So I mean, you know, it's like it's well that's kind of what this show does well, is it it takes the comics and sort of broadly generalizes them and like remixes it to its own sort of ends.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Well, I'm also kind of excited just in terms of because of those those storylines, where at the end of season one, when they had like the board of reg random mutants that uh they were considering drafting into the X-Men, uh, in addition to like Quinton in this season, last season we got Dust, who I love to see comes off of the X-Factor uh X-Corp uh era. Um so like I'm just hoping they give a chance to open up to uh I I I love the X-Men, I love the core X-Men. I guess the the one thing I want more of, and like one of the things my favorite episodes, I think, of the original X-Men series were ones where they opened up to the larger mutant world, and you got to see more people interacting and uh just sort of like living their lives.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Oh yeah, go on, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Uh, because like that was the the original Genosha storyline. Uh, that was one of the things you got like all of those. It was the first time you'd seen this, like, all a range of mutants who were not X-Men and not Brotherhood, um, just sort of like just being people, just like living people, and like with granted, uh they were slaves. They were slaves, but like doing that, and like when they went to the Genosha before before the heartache, um just the the drops that they had in the background there, I was very ballsy, I actually thought. From from the Moses, like if you're saying that like this Genosha's wiped out, you just wiped out like a bunch of Omega level mutants who were just background characters. Yeah. Um who do you remember being wiped out? I can't remember all of them. Well, so you don't see him, but like definitely like when they're on the street dancing, Exodus is there. Oh wow, and then they have what is it, the other shadow cat? No, not uh what's her what's her uh I forget her actual name. She she also goes through things.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

So she's dead now.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

She's like invisible, and I was just like, so if the idea well, they don't tell you these people were explicitly killed, and like you didn't see all of them at the Hellfire Gala, but like in theory, they wiped out I I thought they killed Kalitz Callista. That was interesting. Um and like Sebastian Shaw. Uh so yeah, it was I I mean I I like getting us back on. I like these larger scenes, and like I would love one of the things with this episode, uh, spoilers, uh is having the ex-kids there in like in a classroom is and just there's just that thing of seeing people around, and what is it, goop is there?

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Um well, yeah, and you know, in the original X-Men series, they didn't really have a school. Jubilee is like the only student, really.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Yeah, it was always weird.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

They're setting up an actual school. Yeah, actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like to the point of having all like a bunch of mutants together just kind of doing stuff, like there were some things that were like kind of sad about the Morlock scenes, but like I like the Morlock, I liked seeing the Morlocks in the original series for that exact reason because it's like, oh, this is a whole other sect of like society and how it functions in this world, and like this is just what the mutants are up to. It's cool.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

I really like the X Factor episode in the original series too, because they have the whole Baxter with Iceman, Polaris, and uh Havoc. And it's you know, I didn't think about it until I seeing this episode a second time. Was like, there was actually, I was like, Oh, this is this episode's the introduction of Polaris in a way, like we're getting the Polaris as an X-Men. But no, they actually kind of they they had a whole emotional Polaris episode in the original series where you see like she quits the X-Men, she like lives with Bobby, then she realizes she has like a higher call by joining X-Factor, and then she falls in love with someone else. Like, you got a lot in that story of just like uh you know, a jerk a journey and like a romance and like a betrayal, and uh none of that I I wished I kind of wished in this episode they'd touch on some of that.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Um had like a little Easter egg of like her uh in like a picture frame with her and Iceman together in like her old broom. There were like some artifacts in her old room that they should have.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

I would love Bobby to come back, also. I thought it was interesting that like while everything was going on in the first one, even when they were cutting around to all the random Marvel heroes, they didn't mention him who had actually been in the original series if only for that one episode. Yeah, two episodes?

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Did he come back for another one? No, I think just one. Just the one, yeah. I believe. Um, and also uh oh, what was I gonna say? Uh they still have the continuity messed up because Angel's in the original five group photo with Polaris there. That doesn't make any sense. Uh, but uh leaving that aside, um so uh Professor X the Song had a bad therapy session. Uh we cut to Polaris, she's fighting the friends of humanity and the character Reverend Stryker, who uh do you know like a little bit of a deeper lore in this Feliciano? Uh I'm just assuming it's William Stryker, like there's something in the comics it becomes like a religious figure, or in the movies they change them. I'm not quite sure. I don't remember. Okay, that's fine. I don't know the backstory, but some form I don't really care about the non-mutants, my ex-member. Well, I do think the Friends of Humanity are good villains, and they are they're they're good villains in season one and now. I like seeing them more as like a religious community here.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

Shah's whole thing about like coming from this exceedingly mutant family and then not being the mutant and hating mutants is I think wonderful. Like that's just good writing.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Um and then so Polaris is like single-handedly fighting them, she's kind of like losing her mind a little bit. She's she does that, throws her, you know, like uses her powers to an extreme extent, wants to kill these people. The whole time Dr. Cooper's yelling at her, saying, like, oh, this is just a I don't know, it's like an arrest mission. It's not a a seek and destroy mission. And Polaris is really struggling and like trying not to kill these people. And in the end, she kind of does, and Havoc saves their lives. He like comes bursting in off the scene and prevents her from throwing like a cruise ship at them as they're floating in the ocean. And uh this is like a huge incident. It's all apparently it was all caught on television, and um uh Polaris ends up like getting called to the mat by Dr. Cooper, uh, who I remember is I think she's voiced by the original Gene Gray act actress, which is interesting to keep in mind. Um, and she gets fired because she refuses to apologize or agree to like play ball going forward with the X Factor.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

I like the scene of like Polaris flying around uh when she's just kind of like hovering in the air at the way she has like the aurora drawn around her, like the green aurora lines. That's like so excellent. Yes, love it. Yeah. Anyway, that's all I have to say about it.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

I also I also just I know Disney Proper has spent an entire lifetime vilifying green magic. But I just love that hers is green, like her magnetism is green.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

I mean, that's just the kind of shit that like I'm sure as a kid drew me into the X-Men was just the the color coding of characters, their uniforms, the way they looked. Like, I I know that's it's dumb, but there's just something magical about uh the coding of all these different characters, and sometimes these things have deeper meanings and sometimes they don't, but that still enchants me to this day. I I for I have no idea why.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

I mean, I think green is the most common Aurora color, like just based on photographs. I think that's I don't know. So like that kind of makes sense in a way, but also I think we've talked about before how like it's nice when like relatives in a mutant family, like their powers are kind of related to each other. Like, I guess it's not always the case, but you're looking at her and you're looking at Magneto and you're like, uh, I see what you did.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

What uh the fact that no matter what, Cyclops and Gene will have like omega level telepaths children. Yeah. Um okay, so Polaris. Can we also just I I know this is I I know it's fine for for for for lore and whatnot, but the fact that she uh sister uh sister uh not Asami, that's that's Avatar. Um Ascami? Ascomi? Asami? Uh Mother Ascani. Mother Ascani. The fact that she never mentions that she's Rachel to them is insane to me. Like maybe they're getting to that at some point.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Maybe like I think they're gonna do a Rachel Summer storyline at some point going forward.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

So it kind of felt like when they first cut forward, I thought they were gonna divide them into three eras. Um, and I thought the Rachel one was gonna be one of them um last season. So it was interesting to see that they had only ended up in two times, because I thought they'd ended up in three, but maybe that was just my own brain. Um, and also me desperately needing Gambit back um as one of the horsemen.

SPEAKER_03 39:35

Well, don't worry.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Well uh all right. So Polaris is fired. She's in a co-ed locker room, which I thought was a funny touch with all the X Factor people, you know, put on their uniforms and whatnot. And she gets into a argument with Havoc over the bureaucracy of the whole job, and sort of about she is convinced by Jubilee, as you mentioned, about her role with the X-Men originally and how it's different now and X Factor, X Factor this incarnation really sucks. And you don't get like they don't get into any hinting of like are Havoc and Polaris an item? I I'm assuming not. They they just seem to be co-workers, like maybe they'd broken up uh is that part of the story? I don't know. I mean, I I well they're together in the original series and in the comics. I don't know what their current status is in the comics, but in this continuity, they don't seem to be a romantic item anymore.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

So it shows good taste on her part. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Uh Polaris heads to the X-Mansion, she's going home. Again, this is sort of uh making allusions to the Joss Whedon comics where like Kitty Pride returns to the X-Men to become a teacher, and she's like restarting her life again, like going back to her roots. They're using Polaris' um a version of that. I would have maybe I would have appreciated them just having Kitty Pride as a character. They haven't introduced her at all ever, I don't think, in the show.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

No, she she pops up, I believe, in the original series at some point. Like really, okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Yeah. Is she in the um is she in the uh maybe she's in the Wanda Quicksilver episode? I don't know. I feel like I'm struggling. I don't know. I don't know. Is she in the original?

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Oh wait, you know what? I might be thinking of one of the other early uh X-Men Evolution or something. No, no, no. I think I think maybe she she might pop up in like either the Spider-Man series at some point or some other thing. I definitely have an image of her, maybe her her animation in like a 90s style in my.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

I do too. Like with Colossus.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

That's in Pride of the X-Men. I mean, that the they characters are. I don't think she's in the original series or Spider-Man, unfortunately. They're probably saving her. I mean, she's like a classic S tier X-Men character. I'm surprised they're not having gotten to her. But anyway, um, Professor X is giving a speech to all the like the new young mutants that have sought refuge at the X-Mansion. Oh, this is also we're catching up with the X-Men finally in the present day after they've all been like sort of reunited. And their new roles are the X-Men are like not allowed to be a superhero team anymore, we learn. And the Professor X is just gonna open the school up to teach young mutants, and in doing so, he gives a whole speech about it, and then like he does a trick of the danger room where like sentinels are appeared to be attacking from the like they're tearing open the roof of the X-Mansion, and he freaks all the kids out. Again, this is stuff from the I forget if that was in Grant Morrison or Joss Whedon or maybe both, but like that's a trick he pulls in the comics. And uh and Storm is announced as the new headmistress, which seems appropriate. And uh, I don't know. It's it's like I I like seeing all this stuff. It's like a soft little reset of the show in general going forward here midway through the season. Uh Polaris, like she she goes, she finds her old room, which is preserved, which I thought was an interesting choice. And I guess it's just like the room of an 80s kid. Is that sort of what we're led to believe? She's like an 80.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

I guess so. I mean, you're also led to believe that like they're holding the room of like all of the departed the dearly departed. I mean, not dead, but like you know, the X-Men that left, and like maybe one day we'll come back because this mansion is just that massive that they can afford to like not use these rooms.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

To be fair though, it gets destroyed a lot. So they had to be like, okay, what did the how did Polaris keep?

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Oh my god, you're right. This is a huge continuity error. There's no way because it has all her personal effects in it. I was thinking, like, oh, that's nice. It's like it's their stuff. And we always wondered in the original series when we covered that about like what's the X-Men living situation, what's the salary situation? Does Professor X give them an allowance?

SPEAKER_00 43:46

You know, do they each just have like his black card when they go out someplace? Like right.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

So I was thinking, like, oh, Polaris, this is like her stuff she bought as a teenager with Professor X's money. I I don't know, but you're right, it doesn't make sense with the mansion having been destroyed. So many times that her room is like they've got all her posters and personal pictures and things, and I think it's like her record collection.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

It's like this is classic Professor X. He's like, Okay, but the law says I'm not allowed to have the X-Men be like an operational group. So fine, we won't do that. And we're opening this school. And kids, we're gonna teach you how to use your powers so that one day when the forces of evil come against us, like he can essentially conjure up a new set of X-Men, which he just finished saying he's not gonna do because he's gonna abide by the law. Like, okay, Professor X.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

I mean, they get into a lot of his evil in regards to like his uh proclivity to forming X teams in the comics. Like he's like nefariously doing it often.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Um I mean, the world they live in does call for it.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Like, right, yeah. No, I mean it, you know, it's like that I'm sold enough as an X-Men fan reader of like the need for the X-Men to exist. I don't like get into the head space of questioning Professor X's like forming a paramilitary group of like weird adults that yeah, children into young adults, like whatever that situation is. Like, I it seems all very natural to me on a certain level. I I've bought into the propaganda, but it is sometimes fun to like imagine like what is Professor X really thinking? Like, what is his motivation? Is it did the X-Men exist just to counter his friend Magneto? You know, are they sometimes they're a mesh with the US government in the early comics anyway? It's like an odd little thing going on with like who the X-Men are. And I think the movies struggle with this too sometimes. Like Moira McTaggart represents like a weird she represents like a weird character that bridges whatever the X-Men are in the movies to what their role is in the world at large. You know, I think they maybe they could spell that out a little bit more and with a clever script somewhere in some X-Men medium. But you know, those questions do percolate in one's mind at times. Yeah, like who just who are these X-Men?

SPEAKER_02 46:04

What is it? I think the last couple what was the what was the last X-Men movie that they they made? The one with the Phoenix. Dark Phoenix. Dark the Dark Phoenix one. I think they did uh at least in that one, they finally alluded to like what their place would be with the government and like how they were doing that when the with them going up into space and like people knowing who they were. I don't like that shit.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

That's too much like when they get involved with the government and it's like he's got this weird relationship with the Pentagon profession. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

That's like I don't love it, but uh the story riding dead end to me. Unless you do something like Krokoa, which but I've got very big feelings about that's a little more off the wall.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

I know, yeah. I'm just thinking, like, the I mean in the original first five comics, he's got like partners at the Pentagon and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Yeah, that I feel like that's a vestige though of like the time, right? Like that's like some Captain America stuff, like Batman was duly deputized by the law. Like I I think that was like just par for the course then.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

One of my favorite moments, and again, in it in the first season was when Rogue chucked Captain America's shield.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Oh, yeah, that was I mean, my my heart, because like having her just interact with Captain America alone is incredible. Like Marvel you want.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

The back and forth that mutants always have with the Avengers is I I appreciate that they're taking time to touch on it.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Um what's Beast for I mean, is Beast a piece of shit for joining the Avengers? I I don't I never read those comics with Beast in them.

SPEAKER_02 47:43

Here's I as as a as a kid who like really my my meant my mental image of Beast isn't the early comics because I came to those much later on. It's the it's the ear it's the animated series Beast. Right. So like we all love Beast. Right, he's a wonderful human being. Watching the last 20 years of Beast in comics oscillate back and forth between being like a hero or a villain, or like which version of Beast am I getting today has been a lot. I just want Beast to be like a a charming intellectual hairy man who walks on the ceiling. I don't even know where he is now. I don't know what he's doing. I don't know if he's like experimenting on people, I don't know if he's come back around, I don't know if he's plotting to be the next head of the brotherhood. Where Beast is, maybe one of your viewers can tell us, but like I just need him to be a charming little guy.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

I I happen to Shakespeare. Yeah, I'm a Beast traditionalist. Yeah, he's a special hero. Complexifying him is complicated. That's a weird sentence to make, but I mean like when you complexify his character, it gets a little wonky to me.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

And like it in season one, I was I was I was getting nervous because they were showing that darker, that, that like sharper edge that we haven't had in Beast so far. Um especially after Jinosha happens, like that like that snap with uh with the reporter. Um I was just like, ooh, are you are you are you telling us you're gonna do something with Beast? Are you are you gonna put him down that path? Please don't.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

Maybe it was just like a nod to the path.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

Maybe it was a nod, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

He's he's a little sideline, he doesn't have enough time in this season. He's kind of like a background character. He's just a scientist that helps them solve puzzles.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Sorry, also I not that I'm angry about it per se. I have no real feelings one way or the other, but using I don't know why using Sunspot as the new like young kid on the team for just amuses me. Like you're just like, who in a roster? Let's flick the roster of X-Men. Sunspot, sure.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

I I think it's like I wonder if it it's their intent. I think they're trying to touch on different eras of X-Men comics.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Then they should have gone with tag, one of my favorite tag. I really like background characters. I like background characters with stupid, silly little abilities.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

I I happen to, I mean, this is what I've it goes back to my primal desire for X-Men slop that we've just been getting, as far as Marvel and DC goes, we've been getting all whatever their slop is on TV and cartoons. Uh-huh. I need I just need an endless world of X-Men slop. Like, I don't care how good it is critically, you know, I don't need it. I don't need the Alpha Flight TV show to be good. I just need it to exist like as a CW show where I get 20 episodes and I could just watch it and let my brain rot because that's the content that I need. I don't need 20 seasons of the flash, I need 20 seasons of Xcaliber. And I again make it as bad as you want. It's it'll be fine for me.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Well, what is it? They did they've been doing like all the Marvel What Ifs, they've been doing the like Star Wars Legends, they like anything in that like vignette, all of that like vignette animatrix animatrix type things. Like, that's all I want. I don't need you, I don't even need a team or anything, I just need 15-minute segments about various people who exist in Marvel having 15-minute adventures or story time. Give me speedball going to get some milk and finding out his parents are on drugs along the way.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

Like that's all I want. They they they haven't tapped into the mutant, like the vast mutant roster of endless stories and characters yet.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

It's like they're afraid to crack it open, you know.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

Well, I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

And I'm sure it's all like legal rights and things because like I wanted again, one of the things I loved about season one was how many people they threw in the background at various times. So, like, yeah, I remember not to kill, oh god. Like, I remember just being on the couch with Mark uh and being like, oh, oh, oh, it's that one, it's that one, it's that one.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

Well, again, I think they're on the verge of like giving us an endless like you know, um, overexposed.

SPEAKER_00 51:57

They have to eventually, I just feel like they're holding it as you know, it's like their their last trick card. Yeah, yeah. They're gonna be able to do it. Like once they throw it, that's it. Like they got nothing else behind it.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

So I think that's they will and shitify it for sure. It's going to be too much. They're gonna get like a bunch of X-Men high school TV shows uh that'll be annoying and cloying and like miss the mark, but they stay they like barely this cartoon alone is like the first of them like digging out the pay dirt, and it has been excellent. So I just need more anyway. Okay. Uh the the whole team reunites with Polaris. Uh Beast has his Howard the Duck shirt, which you see in the original series he wears. Uh, she's friends with Gene. Uh and Professor X is like reminding Polaris that this is a safe haven for kids, and he wants her to be involved. And he really like needles Polaris about Magneto being her father, which is I don't know, like why he's I he's like Magneto is so weighing so heavily on Professor X's mind. I guess like Polaris is Polaris is not that interested with Magneto being her dad, and he's kind of just forcing this psychological layer on top of her that she doesn't seem so welcome to as an adult woman. But by the end of the episode, she I guess reluctantly accepts for some reason. Well um, okay. Uh yeah, I mean I don't know like how like how much is did a mine in the comics Polaris, the Polaris Magneto relationship. I'm not too familiar with it other than like the like cursory stories.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

I mean they've gone back across all the mediums, they've gone back and forth with it so much. With like pet there's there's some times where she's completely infantilized and like Magneto's precious little thing, and then there are other times where they have no they're not really even related at all.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Yeah, that's the other thing. Like the sometimes like Wanda and Quicksilver aren't even his children or something, and sometimes she isn't like right, it's all confused. The joys of comic books. Yeah, okay. So um Polaris says something like, Oh, we may be blood, but that man is not my father. You were the one who raised me uh while he was off raising hell. So that's kind of I mean, that's a small, interesting insight into like maybe Professor X was heavily influencing her views on her real dad, you know, like negatively polarizing her against him. I mean, but I guess Magneto was well actually in this continue, Magneto's not that bad of a guy. He's only a bad guy for like three episodes in season one, and then from like that point on, he's basically a hero as far as the show is concerned. Yeah, that's weird. He's like never really a villain again. Um, okay. Uh yeah, so Professor X says he wants her to understand her father, she doesn't want to. And then they like fly off to the Professor X says, I'm going to Genosha to like reconnect more with like the spirit of Magneto or something. And I want you to stay behind and watch the kids. Uh Storm and Forge are also left behind too, which is fun. Um, also fun too that Storm and Forge are an item. You could you could have written it too that in this continuity, uh, Storm and Bishop are an item. Because I remember that explicitly as a kid. There's a panel where like Storm and Bishop sleep together, and she's kind of like, she thinks Bishop is not a good romantic partner because he's something like darkly violent about him.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

Well, that's funny because at some point, and like I they were hinting, I thought they were hinting to this when they went into the future, and then again, with everything else with Wolverine this season, they just kind of dropped it. I was just like, Oh, this is when you two are together. No, are yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

Well, they did well, they showed that in the original series in an alternate, like, yeah, they did. You're right, they did. Yeah. So maybe they felt like the we've already shown that. Um, you're right, you're right. And then, okay, so then uh the danger room starts rebelling. Uh like uh one of the X-Men characters almost dies, the character Wing, who I think in the comics actually the storyline with him is something happens to him where he gets the mutant cure and loses his ability to his power is to fly. And he loses his power to fly, and he's sort of like kicked off the kicked out of the mansion. I don't hear here they almost kill him, but he's alive. They don't quite go there.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

My memory of Wing is that he could never fly and he was just a physically altered looking mutant, and uh maybe I'm confusing characters, and that he had hollow bones, and someone like beats him with a bat, and like angels, angel, not angel, uh not archangel, angel, uh the the woman who has fly powers. Zoe Kravitz. Zoe Kravitz um steps in and like they end up as an item somehow, uh, and have two fly bird children.

SPEAKER_01 56:41

Um I just remember there being a flying character. I thought it was Wing. He like hit fly and someone cures him, and then uh he's sort of he's sad because he lost you know the one thing that made him special life. Either way, someone can uh correct us on who wing is exactly. But here he's just like beat up by the danger room. The danger room's in full rebellion mode. Uh, you know, it's it's like cranked up to 11. Um, they've all the danger room also did like a false attack at the main gates that separates some of the main teams, so they're not there to help. And then uh they have to start fighting the danger room. And again, this is like the Joss Weden storyline. It's sort of at a certain point it forms a body of itself. Uh they do sort I mean it's like you know, I as much as I don't love the Joss Wiesn Whedon storyline, they did get into it more. Like, there's a lot more motivation for the danger room as a character. It it felt like it was an oppressed AI that was like achieved its own sentience. I think there's like a storyline where Professor X like darkly keeps erasing its mind because he knew that the danger room was gaining sentience and he wanted to control it. And the other X-Men get mad at Professor X when they learn about this, they think it's really fucked up and they feel sympathy for this danger character. None of that is really present in that.

SPEAKER_00 58:00

That's kind of a shame because like I this this uh like danger room story, like I didn't know any of the previous storylines from Joss Sweden or whatever. This danger room story to me was like pretty uninteresting. Like, yeah, okay, the danger room rebels against the people, whatever, but they don't really get into any of the moral quandaries that have to do with AI that are like very present in all of our minds, like now, today. That would be like that's pretty fertile ground to mine. If you're gonna go into a storyline like this, like then go for it, I think. Like now hearing that they do in the comics and they just like didn't have time to get into it here. This feels like I don't know, kind of empty. You know, yeah, yeah, go on.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

Yeah, I guess it goes back to what you were saying where it there is this maybe that's also part of the issue. Like, I think last season what they did really well, and I think I what they did really well was the missing scene, like where you something would end, and instead of they would you you would get dealt with the like emotional weight of a moment, but when they picked back up, it wasn't at the next moment, it was later on. Um, like and they they did these cuts in a way that it didn't feel like you were rushed in the moment, whereas it feels like here they're giving up the character beats to get the every every scene in, so to speak. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 59:22

Um it's kind of like I I you know it it reminds me of the X Factor episode from the original series where it's I mean, there was an emotional arc through that. It was like the emotional arc of Iceman like returning to the X-Men and feeling like he was always treated as a kid and he never got respect, and then finding out that his wife or whatever was alive after he thought she was dead, she was really an X Factor, that wife being Polaris. But really, the episode was like, here's X Factor, like we're giving you a general idea of like introducing kids to like the idea that X Factor exists as a thing. This is similar to that. It's like these were some danger room comics that existed, and we're like showing it to you. Like we're giving you like sort of like a a summarized little look at the the the Joss Whedon era of comics. So I mean that I think there's value in that because it's just like it's cool that they're going there and like giving you this, but it's also the meat on the bones here again is like a little lacking.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Yeah, I mean I I appreciate nodding to the original source material because well, I mean, also because I myself am not that familiar with the original source material. Like my love for the X-Men grew almost exclusively out of the original series and not really the comics. I didn't have access to them, so I don't know those stories. So like it is cool to kind of be like filled in on all what happened, but at the same time, it's like what makes the X-Men special is that it deals with like issues of society and like morality in a lot of ways that other media really don't. And so, like that I don't know. Yeah, I'm feeling really disappointed right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

Well, we're being we're all like super critical, we're being super critical. I I was broadly entertained by this, and it you know, I was I was and like that's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

Like, I I do not regret a moment I watch any of this, yeah, but like it's just one of those things where I think when you have something where the source material is so beloved, you don't view things, it's hard to view things in terms of what they're doing as opposed to like what the potential is. And it season one very felt much felt like it was living up to the potential we wanted from it. No, whereas this season it's still entertaining, but it feels like it's taken a step back with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:38

Um well, season one's still doing a lot of heavy lifting for potential, and I think most of us are there for the ride. I mean, the apocalypse is. Oh, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. The apocalypse stuff is good. I mean, I think I'm also getting a little worried about like what's gonna happen in season three. Like, not to say that Bo DeMeo is like the one driving force, but he's his script and uh like he's still referenced quite a lot in this in season two. Like, as we keep going in the next like three more seasons that are promised, and he's less and less involved, like his ideas are less and less incorporated. Like, is there someone like who's gonna pick up the slack?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

Is it I I will say when they put out the first season and they were going over um they were they they did one of the like behind the scenes interviews. I think a lot of the people who came back have a heart in X-Men. My concern is more what they will be allowed to do by like the creator and by by whoever the new showrunner is, and and I'll be I and I'll be honest, like completely honest, like by Disney because yeah, it it definitely seemed like they fought for a lot of what made season one, one and like it you can hear this where people and creators are just like we have this idea, and then this people who have no creative input or creative ability whatsoever have big opinions on how they think a product should be managed and then run it into the ground. Um so and Disney's kind of notorious for that. So like I'm a little I will be a little dismayed if if it takes that direction going forward instead of like trying to get back to its base.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:16

I'd say that this is a addendum to what Bo did in season one. These are like addendum episodes, almost like bonus episodes, and they're finishing up some storylines he started. And I feel like for whatever season three is, they need a full creative reset because it's gonna be new people essentially, and it's gotta like it's gotta reinvigorate like a strong creative vision again. Whether they could do that, who knows? Because the I mean it's just so sad because Bo Damayo is clearly an X-Men genius, and that's just the fact that he's taken away from us either by his own actions or nefariousness on Disney's part, it just sucks either way. Like you had this like once-in-a-generation X-Men super fan that knew how to synthesize all these ideas like through the lens of this classic cartoon that was unlike underappreciated in its time. Like, that is just like that was miraculous. And now you just gotta see if they could just carry on that. I don't know if they can. I mean, so I feel like what we're getting here in season two again, it just feels like it's not like it's bad, it's just like bonus episodes to season one. They're like picking up some pieces here and there and throwing in some new characters.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

Well, if I can make just a parallel, um, I'm gonna make a quick parallel and then I'm also gonna go back and slam Polaris one more time. Uh when we look at uh one of my other favorite uh you know what you know when your brain just says, nah, you're not gonna make this point. Um one of one of my uh favorite show creators whose name I has immediately flown out of my mind. Uh Brian, Brian, Brian Fuller. Okay. That sounds right. Uh uh yeah, Brian Fuller. Uh Brian Fuller was the head writer for Heroes, season one. And then in season two, he left um to go make uh what is it, the pie maker, uh pushing daisies. Uh and when you look at season one of Heroes, beloved in season two, absolutely hated on all because like the main show creator left. Now, a lot of people jumped off there before going on to hero season three. And I actually think season hero season three wasn't terrible because like I think there's also that thing when a show creator leaves, you have the new creator has to step up and like find their footing. And like so season two was recovery for having that like drastic shift. And I'm kind of giving this that season two grace of being like, I think they're finding that they haven't found the tempo yet, but I'm hoping, but it still seems like a great deal of care is being taken to it. Oh, definitely. I'm hoping that like season three, they'll find. That footing of just like okay, well, how are we doing this with that care as opposed to how they were?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:05

It's still broadly entertaining, it looks beautiful. I I I lament only nine episodes. Uh yeah, agreed. Yeah, it's it and it's just like they're just they're competently like telling this apocalypse story for whatever it is, and then uh you know, who knows what season three, like hopefully. I think I have a feeling it's gonna be good because I I read interviews with the new creative guy, Brad Winterbaum, and he was just talking about how he is like busting with ideas and can't he wants to do like 10 seasons of the show. So maybe he's just got like you know, see again, season two, like clearly there's behind the scenes shit that happened where like uh you know, with Bodamayo, obviously, where they they took his name off the credits and they restored his name to the credits, and they had his like scripts in the tank for like I remember they were talking about recording the season two dialogue that voice actors before season one was even released. So these are like years made years ago, yeah. And they had they clearly had to like make some changes, so whatever. We'll we'll find out. But again, broadly entertaining, but uh just you know, it feels a little shallow here and there. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:09

And now to slam Polaris again. Can we talk about that being the messiest breakup alternative ever? Like you didn't leave, you faked being kidnapped, and we're just like, he'll just he'll just let this be. Well, he'll just let this be like like my other my superhero, my uh my boyfriend who was also a superhero, is just gonna let this staged kidnapping rest. He'll just come home and be like, okay, that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

That's a that's the thing that happens to cuck characters and various other meetings. Like it happened, I feel like it happens to Bill Dotrieve in King of the Hill. It uh it was mentioned in Spider-Man because I just rewatched the Spider-Man trilogy. Uh, Martin Starr's character says that his wife faked being blipped to get out of their marriage. He throws her a funeral and everything, and he gives him the eulogy, and he's so sad. Like it's in that category of just like this happens to really pathetic sort of comic characters versus like in the case of Polaris, Havoc, and Iceman, these are like serious characters. Yeah, you're right. That's insane.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:10

Yeah, that's like I was like, then at the end of it, I remember the kid being like, That's what you did. Yeah, Polaris is messed up. I mean, but again, some people will do anything to avoid those difficult conversations. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:27

But to be fair, to like who are these characters? They're like teenagers that live in a weird guy's mansion who who like their job is to fight in dangerous missions, and I can imagine there's solutions to various like so like social uh situations, right? Yeah, it's just it seems natural like when you come from that environment and they're all runaways, you know, like there's just something where I can see them all being psychologically screwed up enough to for it to be plausible, uh, for them.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:55

Yeah, that's true. Actually, I didn't think about being in the mindset of being like, you know, even 19 years old, like yes, but even even at that age, like and you're so good looking.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:05

I feel like I feel like at that angle, like we know we're prone to crash. Like part of the thing with this found family is they know any one of them could crash out at any given moment with superpowers. So that feels like a drastic road to take.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:19

I also I also take their good looks liter uh literally. See, it's like they all they're they all know they're incredibly good looking and so beautiful, the men and the women.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:29

And like been paramilitary trained from day one, no one has an ounce of body fat. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:35

That's just gotta play in the psychology of them somewhere. I if I was writing X-Men movies, I would factor that into my script somehow. I would make that explicit of they know that they look like Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt or like Cindy Crawford or whatever, and that there's just like that element to it. So they need some like regular-looking character to comment on that to their faces.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

And like one of the things I love in the comics is that they frequently the background characters frequently do. Like, even when the first what is it, Genosha happens and they're like flying in the guy, it's not it's not eyeball, but it's the guy who has like three faces on one. Right. He's just like, wow, you guys are some good looking mutants.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:11

You're right, but that that goes into the whole Morlocks storyline as well, too. Just like there's mutants that are passing, and there's mutants that are just freak, like people that are but like you're just born, you look like a dog. Sorry, you're a dog man.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:23

X-Men, yeah, X-Men was never work. We're dealing with colorism in a non-colorism sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:30

But I also think that you could spit it too of like that's why the X-Men are inspirational to mute the mutant community at large. Yeah, because they are the sexiest, like most beautiful mutants that like most mutants are feared and they're shit upon. They live in the streets and they're just like considered disgusting by society, but then you run into like an X-Men, like let's say you're just like a Morlock that's like ugly, and you just bump into an X-Men while you're poor and starving in the streets in New York, and you gaze up, and it's this like gorgeous person in spandex glistening with beauty, and they represent like mutant freedom and mutant rights and stuff. I think that's also could be a powerful message, too, that could be communicated as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:08

Like that is some first wave mutinism.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:16

All right, well, there's some kinks to iron out in that kind of thought problem. I'm just trying to make it all make sense again. I like taking it as literally as possible. I don't like blinding myself to like the idea that these people all look amazing. I think you have to play with it, you know, if it's gonna be true. All right, so anyway, I mean like danger crash lands into Genosha, they all get into a fight. Um, you know, again, the action looks great. Uh it the climax is Professor X tells Polaris that like you you need not hold back your true power, you need to unleash it. I don't know like how much like where that comes from or how much that makes sense for her character, or in this moment, if that was what her problem was, that she was one of these characters that was like limiting herself.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:59

I I know I don't I don't know if it's I don't I guess read enough X Factor, I don't have enough Polaris comic lore under my belt, but I know it's that theme has come up in the other Polaris areas because like again it came up in the gifted. It's in the gifted, it came up, it came up in uh what is it, uh Wolverine and the X-Men. Um so like maybe it's a thing. Yeah, maybe it's a thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:23

Well, I mean it's it comes up like earlier in this episode. Like that was the whole thing, right? Is that she doesn't control her powers and she almost kills those people with the boast in the very beginning.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:34

She's not talking about that. She's just sad she didn't get to kill these people.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:37

And she's like, Yeah, but Val Cooper is the one who Val Cooper who's like representing the government and society at large, is like you have to, you're out of control, you have to learn to control yourself. So there's like a whole theme with her, I think, of like control as oppression or something, and Professor X is supposed to be the one telling her, like, it's okay to not be oppressed, or like you have to be the one to break free of that oppression, or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:04

I mean, it feels like a contradiction to me because I could also see Professor X easily saying, like, you must learn to control these powers. Totally. That's like usually what he says to X-Men, right? Yeah, like wasn't that it's a big storyline with Storm in the original series, is that she has to constantly be under control because when she's not, like she goes ballistic mode with her goddess powers and can destroy the ecosystem or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:26

Mutant storylines are the fourth wave of feminism, didn't you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:31

It's whatever the storyline calls for, I guess, is like how they instruct a mutant on how to use their power. And again, I think Polaris' powers look incredible. I just love all the dream waves of energy, she's amazing. Um, they knock danger out, problem solved. She also tells Professor X, Yeah, I did sense my father in doing that. Um, I they also keep alluding to the movies. There's two movie references again, they can't stop alluding to Marvel movies. One where Danger has the axe and is gonna chop off Professor Z's head, and she's like, Oh, I should have gone for the head. That's an explicit Thanos reference. And then the other one is I guess just the whole storyline in general, Polaris like not holding back. That's allusions to the um the uh the mo the more modern X-Men movies with what's Chris McAvoy and uh Fastbender. Oh yeah. That's a subplot with like Magneto does not like Professor X wants him to do more incredible things with his magnetism powers. Uh okay, then Professor X is inspired to form X-Corp on Genosha and just essentially restart the X-Men, I guess, but like outside of the boundaries of the United States government, which is a funny twist.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:37

But how is he gonna do that when his mansion is still in Westchester? That's gonna be an issue. Well, you're right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:43

Well, when you rebuild a mansion as many times as they have, you know, he can just he's got them on back order. He'll just he'll ship one out to Genosha.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:51

I mean, yeah, I mean, and he's so rich too, it's fine. But uh so he's gonna move the team to Genosha essentially. Uh right, the good question about like what's gonna happen to the school there. Dr. Cooper's mad, she says there's gonna be consequences to all this. Uh, I kind of like the Dr. Cooper character in general. I think she's a strong like little foil for the X-Men world.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:10

Uh we see the professor uh I wrote that the X-Men have their new outfits, uh, and then Professor X is like talking about their next mission, they just have a big hologram of Apocalypse's face that they're all looking at. And then that leads to the ending of the episode where we go to Athens in Greece, uh, under like an ancient Greek ruin, I'm guessing like the Parthenon or something. Uh and Apocalypse is making Gambit into a horseman. And I the one thing that I thought was funny was Apocalypse is like, more power, but he's the one operating the machine, and he he's like talking to himself. Like normally a mad scientist is instructing Igor to like operate the controls and uh drunk, pull the lever. Yeah, and um so Gambit is I don't know what happened to his body. Was his body recovered in season one? I can't remember.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:59

It was it was but it was recovered and buried. So clearly Apocalypse did some grave robbing first. Just put Gambit outside the X Mansion. You know, he can it just teleport him. It's just gonna be easier. Just teleport the body.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:13

Also, in in the transformation process, all of Gambit's playing cards turn into tarot cards. Which is fun. Is that yeah?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:21

Well, I don't I maybe I haven't read that I haven't read that one in so long. I don't remember if that's actually a thing. I mean, or not, just ha him having tarot cards is fun. Yeah, that's cool as hell. Um yeah, I think I I think let me not overspeak. I because I'm not completely caught up on what they're doing now. I I I read the first couple of volumes um of his storyline uh with Rogue and and uh what's her face? Equist? No, that's not that's a play.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:52

Um well you know where I haven't read uh um the last X-Men comics I read were the uh initial Hickman Krakoa comics, and I just read them once and I didn't read the lead up to them or the fall the follow-ups to them. So you know more about what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:08

I well I read I read I read The Fall of House the House of X. Um and then since then I've just kind of spot checking and like whenever a Gambit Heavy comic comes up, I will I will take a look. Um Did you have Gambit number one as a kid?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:23

I did not. I saw it at the comic stores, I didn't buy it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:26

I I mean I don't think it was good, but I I didn't know I don't it when I think of all of the not just all of the geek stuff that I either passed on or uh sold off years ago, uh and like there are collected values now. A part of me cries. What's the worst one? Um I sold all of my magic cards uh roughly of the time because like the comic bubble had popped. Right. So I figured the magic bubble would pop. And like in c when I went into uh college, I sold them all. Uh I'm not gonna get into the specifics, but I afforded uh housing for like four years. Wow. Like and so that was a good sale then. It was a good sale, and had I kept half of that now, I would own multiple houses. That's um ridiculous. Multiple, multiple houses. Um, because I started playing on beta, um, and which means I had alpha cards too. Um, and uh yes, I had all the ones that you could think of. Um, and was just like, this is gonna pop. Let me let me get rid of them while they still have value, not realizing that Matt Geek was about to become like the new norm, and everything would be worth a fortune.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:41

Um I'll give you a quick one. I remember my local comic store as a kid, little shop of comics in Scotch Plains, New Jersey, or fanwood. Shout out, yep. I don't it does not exist anymore. They always had the first uh Wolverine vs. Hulk comic, whatever it is, like Incredible Hulk 181 for sale in in great condition for like 180 bucks. And I never had that money as a kid, but I always wanted it. And then I've told the story as an adult. I just looked up, you know, let me get a crappy edition of this comic that I've always wanted, you know, the first Wolverine. I want to collect it. Like the crappiest, most beat up one was like $7,000. Yeah, and a mint condition one was like $50,000. I was like, if I just had $180 as a kid, I just saw it there for years for sale, like on the wall, like for you know, uh I guess $180 in 1994 was like $500 today. Like, I don't know what, but it that that one frustrates me to no end just to think I could have saved up some money over a couple of summers. I could have scrounged that together and I'd be sitting on a gold mine. So you know we could we could have bought something nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:45

I think I sold two black lotuses at like 15,000 a pop. Oh my god. And like worth now. I would uh the last time I checked, it was in the neighborhood of like 80,000.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:58

Oh, that's um ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:00

You shouldn't stop checking.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:01

That's not that's not worthwhile misery.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:05

Like my dad with his baseball card collection that he got rid of.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:09

It's it's not intentional, it's normally something like so uh in terms of if X-Men has been like my lifelong love, uh Magic the Gathering has been my lifelong addiction. Um, like I I treat it, it's like an addiction. Every couple of years, I'm like, I can't do this anymore. I get clean, I put it all away, I like move on with my life, and then someone says something or someone does something, and like it flashed to what is it? Uh I my my my my eyes dilate and like the pumping of my blood happens, and then I'm just like, well, I'm back in it now. Um a couple years a couple years ago, a bunch of my friends were just like, Hey, have you heard of this thing called Magic the Gathering? Like, everyone's talking about it, and like I Mark said it was what was one of those people. And I looked over to the stack of boxes that lived tucked away in the corner of a room, and I was just like, Well, here we go. It's time.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:07

All right, listen, there's a lot of pain there. We're gonna have to save that pain for future discussion. Fleesiana was so wonderful having you here. We'd love to have you back whenever you want. Um, yeah, just let me know, and I'll I'm on board.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:19

Okay, all right. Thank you for having me. This has been a good time.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:22

Um, the uh this episode at Gambit coming back to life is like that was telegraphed from season one. So it's not that big.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:29

We've been chanting for horsemen. Yeah, we've been chanting.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:32

Well, I was offended when they showed the horseman in the other episode. Uh, and I was just like, where is he? This is I was I was promised TV a horseman.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:41

Well, he's here now. Uh, we'll get the remaining three at some point. I'm assuming Magneto's gonna be one. It just seems kind of obvious. Um, all right, anyway, um, that's all I have for now.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:51

Uh I thought what I thought Wolverine was gonna the way I was, I was when I was trying to figure out how they were gonna do it, I was like, oh, it's gonna be they're gonna make instead of Wolverine being deaf, they're gonna make him war. And like Meg and Apocalypse will give him back his adamantium.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:04

That makes perfect what everyone thought, and they didn't go there. So they zagged. All right. Until next time, good night, everybody. Good night.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:13

Night, thanks for having.